Gacha Games/Store Practices

[Dragon Lord]

Yeah, "whale" is just a term used to describe someone who has spent a considerable amount of money on a gacha game. The term "dolphin" is also used to describe someone who has spent some, but not an extreme amount, and then "Leviathan" for the people who have spent more than what most of us make in a year.

Also, not all whales are like this person I'm talking about. I'd argue that most whales are actually very nice people, and use their advantages from spending to help people more than anything. I know one smaller Twitch Genshin streamer who spends a lot of their time using their beefed up characters to help their free-to-play viewers clear content that they can't get through by themselves. It's just this one specific content creator who thinks that because he's spent more money on the game than most, that it gives him the right to dictate how the game is played/what characters are deemed good/bad and how the community should view each character. So in the big picture, a large majority of whales are actually very friendly and helpful to those who remain free-to-play and struggle with harder content.

I'll PM you his username.

[Moonface]

Huh, I'd never heard of terms other than "whale" before, so that was actually interesting to learn about. Makes me wonder what other terms there are for players that I've never heard of across gaming.

And yeah, DL already said it but whales aren't necessarily bad people, since it isn't about the personality, just the money, similar to calling someone a millionaire doesn't instantly mean they're a garbage person.

[Dragon Lord]

Yeah, there's a few terms floating around for gacha players now.

F2P - Obviously referring to people who never spend any money on the game and only use what they are able to obtain through playing the game.

Minnow - Some people use this term to refer to people who spend a little bit here and there, such as buying a $5 monthly pack or something like that.

Dolphin - Someone who has spent a little bit of money on the game (usually between $100-$1,000)

Whale - Someone who has spent $1,000+ on the game.

Leviathan - Someone who has spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on the game. The kind of people who will drop $2,000+ on every new character to get them fully maxed out. Or in the case of Genshin, you need to max out the character + their weapon (if a new weapon is introduced with them). To give you an idea of what it could potentially take to be a Genshin Leviathan -- it took me $800 to C6 Ganyu (need to pull her + pull six more copies), and that doesn't include going in and getting six copies of her bow to truly max her out. A Genshin Leviathan is easily dropping $2,500+ on each new character that also comes with a new weapon.

That's the general guidelines to terms used for gacha spenders.

[Karo]

I think the awful thing about it is companys like to go "whale hunting" like figure out ways to get you to spend more in some very not nice ways.  Its definitely a big reason why I tend to avoid gacha type games.

With FFXIV I know I'm probably getting ripped off on the cash shop, but hey at least there nothing trying to trick me into buying more than my own desires and even if it overpriced...at least I don't have to gamble for it.

[Dragon Lord]

Well, Gacha games don't make you spend, at all. It's 200% the player's choice to spend and nothing more. All content in Genshin Impact, for example, can be cleared using the four free characters the game gives you, or with whatever characters a person happens to pull with the gems they can in-game.

All the content in Arknights can be cleared using teams of 3/4* characters, with some stages requiring you to have the help of a 5/6* (which you can just borrow a friend's if you lack your own).

Most Gacha games run that way, as well. You can clear everything with whatever the game gives you. Of course making progress/building your team will be slower, but you can achieve everything that way.

Some people like to say gacha games "prey" on people with gambling addictions/compulsive behavior, but that's all on the person. You gotta learn to control your urges or else you're going to put yourself in a bad place. Like, I definitely compulsively spend money on gachas, mostly due to getting greedy and wanting to have a maxed out character, but I'll never blame the game for it. Like spending $800 to get Ganyu to C6 in Genshin. That was all me, just purely being greedy. The game tells you the pull rates, so you know what the odds are. Can't blame the game for not being able to control yourself.

[Karo]

I can agree wuth some of that they don't make you spend and it does depend on the game and company policy, but certain mechanic like targeting pricing, limited deals and more psychological stuff can be used in games to attempt to make you more likely to buy stuff. We all make the choice and we all gotta learn our limits but there are some of us that might be more susceptible to these practices and just I dont think that okay to have these practices.

Gacha mechanics are fine by themselves but I feel like they should just be gacha mechanic. Put cosmetics or whatever in them if you want but consider putting a trade system or a buy option. If you like gacha hurray! It could honestly be a really good deal.

[Moonface]

I'd agree that games with gacha mechanics are likely to advertise purchases in ways that make them more enticing, but in fairness no company wouldn't advertise their deals to customers. Publix basically thrives on their weekly sales and pushes them harder than anything else knowing customers will go for them, but that wouldn't be called predatory. Then again, those deals are giving you the exact thing you're going into them for, whereas a lot of gacha games probably advertise deals for dice rolls which isn't the same.

In other news, the doctor said that my shoulder is finally better. Gonna miss having 5am - 9am shifts though. XD

[Karo]

Oh its not the deals that the part its more of the algorithm generating a deal with a few minute timer to tempt you to purchase it in fear that it will be gone. Company will always advertise the deals and we often feel better about our purchases when we are told we are getting a deal, but I don't think that predatory. For example like let say in this hypothetical game there is a system that does behind the scene stuff to make it more enticing for me to purchase an in game thing and collect data on me to potentially change the prices of items in the store that I am more likely to buy and lower the prices of things that I am not likely to buy. It kinda creepy that there something adjusting the prices and collecting your data, but to add to this let say it will randomly pop up a 5 minute deals with items It think I'd be tempted to buy, but if I don't purchase it now I miss this deal. I am far more likely to take the deal and I think that is predatory. Now if they just added new gacha items or they advertise the gacha items I could potentially get that is all fine and good.

And that good news Moony!

[Moonface]

FOMO is generally bad regardless of whether it's in a gacha game or anything else. On that note I still find it stupid that Nintendo is killing Mario in two days.

[Dragon Lord]

A large majority of Gacha games don't just randomly pop up items deals that last 5 minutes, and if they do, it uses in-game currency to buy them, not premium currency. When it comes to packs that require premium currency, they usually last at least two weeks, if not longer. Again, it's up to the player to decide what matters more to them -- their time or their money.

I've played many gacha games, and none of them have ever felt like they were trying to prey on me. I've just spent a ridiculous amount of money on gacha games over the years because I'm a greedy SOB who wants everything.

[Karo]

I do want to point out I probably should of better said most of these are mobile gaming industry trends of monetization and I do feel like they might eventually come into the console gaming market where I personally feel like they really shouldn't, but of course the mobile gaming industry isn't the only thing to do this airplane sites do targeting price, every single things uses FOMO, psychological things to attempt to get you to spend more. Night Lord also reminded me of this but in certain games that are said to be paid to win you are given the choice of slowly grinding things out with your (time) or paying money upfront for them to skip the thing that they made to slow the game down. Either way you will be paying for it and of course there is some real world equivalents to this.

Its all over the place and honestly it makes me sad cause I feel it is a predatory thing and its pretty normalized in all industries probably in places that you don't really even notice. Not everyone is affected by this and of course everyone has a choice I just bring it up because frankly I don't think it should be industry standard. If a product is good people will buy it and people will support the creators including things to attempt to get every single penny they can I believe is in bad moral taste and I think its important to talk about this and I hope I have successfully explained my thoughts well this time.

Also Moony I am really glad I never purchased that all star pack because screw limited time releases!

[Moonface]

I think the chances of a game pushing mobile monetisation mechanics into itself when it isn't a mobile game is very low, and very high to cause instant backlash. Mobile games having it is a standard that was set because too many people who play only mobile games don't perhaps know better to question it. Console games for example won't have timers and lives you have to wait on, which any mobile game I've played uses as leverage to encourage buying characters and items by throwing in bonus gems that are used to replenish those timers. At least grinding in console games generally lets you still play; a mobile game is giving skips to let you even continue playing instead of waiting on timers. The new Crash Bandicoot mobile game is filled with such timers and deals.

[Maniakkid25]

When I started reading that posting, I was deeply confused. "Console games pushing mobile marketing? What are you talking about?! That s***'s HERE!" Then I read further and realized you were talking about the timers and predatory pricing techniques that corporations like Scientific Revenue try to (and successfully) push. Sadly, I think you overestimate people's ability to sniff out crap. Pretty much the only thing keeping it in check is inertia. Once a game figures out how to make idle games profitable on consoles, it's game over. In fact, it may be too late; Genshin Impact is a game that crosses over mobile and PS4, and it's been a rocketing success. I think it's only a matter of time...

[Moonface]

Genshin is likely successful because it has a solid core gameplay loop, which attracts people to pay money for content. It's the same for the battle royale genre, if the game isn't good the rest doesn't matter. That Marvel Avengers game is full of purchases and it will barely drive any sales except from the most hardcore because the game is bad and the pricing isn't much better either. I heard it was something like $15 for a character skin.

[Karo]

I feel it's only a matter of time really companies will get their way eventually. They might receive backlash but they work toward normalizing it. Remember when day 1 dlc was controversial? Its standard now. Remember when xbox wanted to get rid of disc? They are laying the groundwork to pull the bandaid off. 

So if they do decide to include more mobile gaming industry practices they'll probably get away with it. Tbh I dont get how games think they'll make money when their gameplay loop isn't good?