Liveable Wage vs. Tipping

[Moonface]

I don't know if any other countries do this, but at least in the US, most restaurants have their waiters rely on tips to make a living wage rather than just pay their staff a living wage to begin with. Normally the expectation is around 15% - 18%, although you can go higher or lower at your discretion (just know doing the latter is going to get you seen as an asshole unless you had a good reason).

I'm curious what everyone else here thinks about the tipping culture in the US. Should it remain as it is, or should the workers get a living wage as standard, with tips being a bonus rather than a necessity. Rather than needing to give a particular percentage, you could just choose any amount without having to feel obligated to hitting a certain percentage. In the UK for example if I were to tip, I'd give £1 and that would be seen as exceptionally generous by the person receiving it, to the point they may even try to dissuade me from giving them it. Give a $1 to someone in the US and I wouldn't be surprised to have the waiter spit in my food if I ever got served by him again. XD

I just think it would be a more positive experience for everyone if servers weren't having to rely on tips to survive, and customers didn't need to tip knowing someone's livelihood depends on it. Tipping should still be a thing, I just think it could be done better than the way it is. The only thing I would absolutely retain without change is the compulsory service tip for large parties (I think most restaurants put the minimum size at 8 persons) because someone serving that many people should absolutely not get stiffed by the entire table not wanting to give them anything extra for the work involved serving that many people.

What do you guys think?

[queenzelda]

I think that this argument of livable wage vs tipping has been going on for a long time. There are some who side on the thought that they make more money due to getting better tips vs what they would get with a 'livable wage' otherwise. While on the flip side, there are some who say they don't make enough on tips to survive & would rather have a livable wage. Both sides are viable & have their points.

I think that all waiters/waitresses should make a living wage & any tips they get as extra they should be able to keep. That way at least if they don't clean up a night on tips it's not like they had to rely on them to be able to survive on. But, that's my thought.

[Moonface]

That's why I say a living wage with smaller tips would be the best approach. They'd still get the ability to make extra, but it doesn't rely on such big tips and they don't get screwed if their tips aren't enough to make up a decent paycheck. Even keep the suggested tips on the receipt; just put it to 5-8% instead.

[Monocle]

Tipping is stupid. everyone that works, period, is providing a service, whether to a customer or to their corporation of employment. To get paid extra by people for doing your job is stupid. Going above and beyond the expectations of the job should get rewarded, but not with tips.

America is stupid for promoting this culture and giving workers a variable for living instead of a constant wage. This country is dumb. Drop the tipping, give them a livable wage.

this is for New York State:



Ignoring NYC and Long Island, which have higher minimum wages, the rest of NY only gets, at most, $8.40. Minimum wage is $11.10 in NY right now. This basically forces them into a culture of being annoyingly friendly and subservient to customers who get to choose if they tip or not. The service doesn't provide the reward. Infuriating. This country loves to create culture of superiority about almost anything and tippable wages are part of that.

[fantanoice]

Having your waiting staff work for tips is borderline slavery. You are the employer, you are responsible for the pay. The staff are basically independent contractors without the benefits like deciding their own work hours.

Wait staff get paid wages in Australia. Tipping is optional at most places but I have seen some with signs up saying they refuse to accept them. In countries like Japan tipping is seen as an insult.

[Kyng]

It's less pervasive here in the UK, but it is still a problem: I know some restaurants here have got into hot water in the past for paying their waiters below the minimum wage, and expecting them to be made up with tips.

But, I agree with Monocle here: the culture of tipping is stupid, and I'd rather not be expected to do it at all. At most, it should be a bonus for particularly good service.

[WR91]

I went with a living wage with lower tips.

I don't believe someone should make less than minimum wage just because they're going to (sometimes) get tips to make up for it. Tips should just be extra for doing an exceptional job.

[Moonface]

I was reading on social media that apparently some places in Canada are trying to push 30% as the new standard for tipping: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costofliving/ti...-1.6555135

I didn't think Canada had the tipping culture America has but I guess it does, and I'm sure if this new percentage hasn't been tried in America yet it's going to be. I already see more places than ever asking for a tip at the register when paying by card even when it's not somewhere that serves food. If memory serves me right the registers in Dollar Tree do it which is ridiculous.

Japan has the best idea which is no tips, ever. Giving one there is apparently an insult because it suggests the person being tipped doesn't make enough money from the job alone or that the service they're giving you isn't what the standard service is in the first place.

[Mr EliteL]

Yeah I wish everywhere adopted Japan's way, but then again you get those that don't get paid enough or something and rely on tips for that extra mileage on their pay. I don't mind going up to something like roughly 10%, and that tips should be optional for how much you give. 30% is getting into ridiculous territory though.

[Moonface]

Yeah I wish everywhere adopted Japan's way, but then again you get those that don't get paid enough or something and rely on tips for that extra mileage on their pay. I don't mind going up to something like roughly 10%, and that tips should be optional for how much you give. 30% is getting into ridiculous territory though.

To me if the workers can't be paid enough without tips then the business isn't really viable in the first place but clearly the businesses can be or places like Japan wouldn't have a service industry worth a damn because most of it would be closed down from paying the workers properly.
Anywhere doing 30% tip definitely sounds like somewhere that should be out of business because the only way they can function is to have slave labour that only avoids the distinction via a technicality because of tips.

EDIT: Lol, just ordered food through Uber Eats and they had the fucking nerve to calculate a tip based on the price of the order without any of the waived fees taken into account:
Order: $26
Delivery: $0 (would've been like $4 but delivery was free)
Tax: $2 ($4 if not for the 50% discount on this)
Promotion: -$3
Total for calculating the tip: $37

Stick an egg in your shoe and beat it Uber. I'm not paying a 20% tip based on $37 because you don't want to calculate a tip based on the true order total. If I'm paying $26 then I do 20% of that. I wouldn't go to a restaurant on a night where they do a discount on taco's because it's Tuesday and be expected to calculate a tip based on the regular full price, so I'm not doing it for you.