General Game Chat

[Maniakkid25]

As someone who didn't really touch anything in the RPG genre until probably PS4/Switch, what was the stigma JRPG's had over western ones? I'm surprised JRPG's would have even been viewed in any negative light (except perhaps for being too anime, but that doesn't have to exclusively sit with JRPG's) since I thought JRPG's were always generally good quality and also tend to do things a lot different to notable western RPG's like Skyrim or whatever.
I can somewhat get the want for a distinction between Japanese and Western game development, particularly if a given genre has very notable differences between regions like RPG's could or just have a particular cultural feel to them in terms of writing or characters. It's like how anime tends to be exclusively to refer to only that which is produced in Japan, while something like Avatar which to me feels like an anime isn't really labelled as such because it wasn't produced in Japan.

The stigma was "LINEAR = BAD!", basically. There was a huge pushback by people against linearity in games, culminating in Final Fantasy's 13 "Corridor" accusations and memeing. You want a reason why there are so many games that are open-world? It's because people were shouting from the rooftops "LINEAR GAMES SUCK!" FOR A STRAIGHT DECADE! And the people who LIKED these kinds of games were bullied for their opinions. For a decade! And I still blame Spoony and Yahtzee!

I got lucky; I was actually introduced to Baten Kaitos by sone friends of mine in middle school, and I ended up falling in love with the game along with them. I remember us getting hyped about the game getting a sequel in Origins, too! Man...I'm old. That was nearly 20 years ago, ffs...

[ShiraNoMai]

Digimon World 3 was my first real foray into JRPGs, if we discount Pokémon as a viable option. I...could never get outside the starting area cuz I would always run into the open world area and die to a high level monster on my first or second wild encounter, and because you don't get a save checkpoint yet, it resets you to the start. I can't tell you how many times I did that before I eventually gave up on the game.

I find it interesting that JRPGs were panned for their linearity cuz most I can think of have some degree of non-linearity to them that make them quite different to their Western counterparts, actually even way before Western style RPGs were even a thing in video games. Like, I'm pretty sure Dragon Quest titles were known for their non-linearity, in the same vein as Digimon World 3 I just mentioned.

[Monocle]

Well it really depends. I'd say the 90s JRPGs had semi open world. like yeah there was a world map but you could only visit a certain section of it so was it really open world? no not really. but if gave you that feeling of being open.

and linear games don't bother me at all. my problem with ff13 was that the characters just weren't that great at all. I feel no attachment to them whatsoever. Story was okay and I can see why it needed to be linear but the characters were flat and boring. Otherwise I don't mind linear of it's filled with good gameplay.

but man Baten Kaitos is a throwback. With that early 2000s dub. it's so great. I love those kinds of dubs.

[Moonface]

As someone who didn't really touch anything in the RPG genre until probably PS4/Switch, what was the stigma JRPG's had over western ones? I'm surprised JRPG's would have even been viewed in any negative light (except perhaps for being too anime, but that doesn't have to exclusively sit with JRPG's) since I thought JRPG's were always generally good quality and also tend to do things a lot different to notable western RPG's like Skyrim or whatever.
I can somewhat get the want for a distinction between Japanese and Western game development, particularly if a given genre has very notable differences between regions like RPG's could or just have a particular cultural feel to them in terms of writing or characters. It's like how anime tends to be exclusively to refer to only that which is produced in Japan, while something like Avatar which to me feels like an anime isn't really labelled as such because it wasn't produced in Japan.

The stigma was "LINEAR = BAD!", basically. There was a huge pushback by people against linearity in games, culminating in Final Fantasy's 13 "Corridor" accusations and memeing. You want a reason why there are so many games that are open-world? It's because people were shouting from the rooftops "LINEAR GAMES SUCK!" FOR A STRAIGHT DECADE! And the people who LIKED these kinds of games were bullied for their opinions. For a decade! And I still blame Spoony and Yahtzee!

I find that funny just because I'm used to seeing an argument for open-world usually being that you get more for your money and more replayability, but RPG's as a whole tend to be the longest games you can get on the market regardless of whether they're open-world or not. Heck, given how long RPG's can be I personally would welcome some of them to be more linear affairs just so I'm not spending even more time in them exploring every nook and cranny of an overworld and having the game overstay its welcome. That and the smart thing to do is make a game open or linear based on what works for the game, and not just for the sake of doing it to please a focus group or loud minority. People demanding a game provides a huge open world just for the sake of not being linear and giving more content is what causes a machine like Ubisoft to churn out open world games that just stuff themselves with tons of random bullshit that bloats the game and brings down the overall quality.


@ShiraNoMai: Oof, by reset to the start do you actually mean it basically puts you back to the point as if you hit "New Game" on the main menu or something? If so that's rough and I'd be shocked if it didn't negatively impact the overall series perception. I get that it was your fault really for wandering into the open world without a clue, but that's still a really insane punishment. x.x

@Monocle: Just in case you didn't see it, Maniak made a thread for Baten Kaitos here recently: https://universalgaming.net/showthread.p...4#pid26584

[Maniakkid25]

In Shira's defense, actually figuring out what to do in Digimon World 3 is really hard, and the random encounters mean that one area is a joke, but the area right next to it will kick your teeth in. Legit, the first thing you really have to do in that game is just grind the opening area until you hit level 5 with all your digimon, because that's when they unlock their first Champion digivolutions. There are very few games where walkthroughs are necessary to beat the minimum game; this is one of those rare cases where it absolutel is.

[Dragon Lord]

With that early 2000s dub. it's so great. I love those kinds of dubs.

It's moments like this that make me wonder why I'm friends with you, enjoying filthy English dubs. Always a disappointment to me. 

The mention of Digimon World 3 makes me miss that game so much. Really wish Bamco would port it to something more desirable, but they are too busy making pointless ports of Tales of Symphonia that don't actually run any better than the previous version.

[Monocle]

It's moments like this that make me wonder why I'm friends with you, enjoying filthy English dubs. Always a disappointment to me.

you love me BECAUSE I'm trash. 

also it isn't that bad tbh. they tried hard to sound like ff7r dub. wish they did their own thing instead

[Maniakkid25]

I'm actually surprised you like Baten Kaitos' dub, because it's absolutely awful. The voice audio is tinny, and the vocal inflections are just all off. Now, as far as the tinny audio, I understand what they were trying to do; in-game, while you control the main character, you the player are actually a major character in the story as a Guardian Spirit, who is visiting from another world. This is an excellent example of Painting the Medium, where you use non-standard elements of that medium to blur the boundaries of the fourth wall and what the medium can convey. In practice, it sounds absolutely terrible, but I understand the intent.

[Monocle]

Oh it's definitely awful but I still love it. Part of it is because I love the game itself so I'm biased but it's charming to me. It isn't super mega awful like Chaos Wars. Arc Rise Fantasia was also terribad too

[Dragon Lord]

[Insider Gaming]

Playstation is working on a new Remote Play Handheld Codename "Q Lite" which requires always online and a PS5 for 1080p and 60 FPS.

The Handheld looks like a PS 5 Dualsense with a 8 inch LCD Touchscreen

Supports adaptive Triggers.

If this ends up being true, my first thought is what the fuck Sony, no OLED screen like the OG Vita had? smh

Secondly, I don't really get the point of a dedicated remote play system that requires you to always be online, thus making it impossible to take any where with you. I mean... I guess if you want to go play a PS5 game on the crapper? KEKW

Definitely not something I'd see myself getting. Ah yes, let me play my PS5 game in 1080p at 60 FPS on an 8-inch screen instead of in 4K at 120 FPS on my 55'' OLED TV.

Like if this was a Vita 2 or something, I'd be absolutely stoked, but this thing is just... no Sony, no.

[Mr EliteL]

Ayy, let's make a gamepad for PS5 like what the Wii U had, that went well didn't it?

Because that's what it sounds like. Ye-no. That Q Lite is so not needed, made even worse by the always online shtick. Why bother?

[Moonface]

[Insider Gaming]

Playstation is working on a new Remote Play Handheld Codename "Q Lite" which requires always online and a PS5 for 1080p and 60 FPS.

The Handheld looks like a PS 5 Dualsense with a 8 inch LCD Touchscreen

Supports adaptive Triggers.

If this ends up being true, my first thought is what the fuck Sony, no OLED screen like the OG Vita had? smh

Secondly, I don't really get the point of a dedicated remote play system that requires you to always be online, thus making it impossible to take any where with you. I mean... I guess if you want to go play a PS5 game on the crapper? KEKW

Definitely not something I'd see myself getting. Ah yes, let me play my PS5 game in 1080p at 60 FPS on an 8-inch screen instead of in 4K at 120 FPS on my 55'' OLED TV.

Like if this was a Vita 2 or something, I'd be absolutely stoked, but this thing is just... no Sony, no.

I might be wrong but I thought Sony was already offering some manner of playing PS4 and PS5 games remotely with Remote Play, so this new thing seems a bit redundant. I feel only the most hardcore of players would care for this, while the rest either won't because they already don't touch Remote Play or they'll stick to using whatever devices they've been using for that already.
I've also never touched Remote Play myself so I don't know the full extent of it but the impression it gave me was that you can just stream your game onto a phone or something for when you're not near the console.

On the subject of possible Sony endeavours, I just saw that Sony filed a patent for temperature controls in DualSense controllers to mimic hot and cold sensations. Obviously it being a patent doesn't mean it'll ever see the light of day, but I dunno if I would want to see this in a controller myself anyway. XD

Xbox Games Showcase Confirmed for June 11
Microsoft has confirmed that their Xbox Games Showcase will be held on June 11, followed by a dedicated Starfield presentation after that event:

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It's not part of E3 2023, but I feel this thread will probably end up being the hub to discuss anything that would fall into the traditional "E3 season" and if not I can always split this out later to somewhere else. I wonder if Bethesda isn't going to have a big presence this year since this hasn't been labelled an Xbox + Bethesda Games Showcase like it was in prior years.

I haven't got any expectation for the presentation except for wanting Microsoft to actually come out with some things for Xbox in 2023/2024 that aren't done mostly by third parties. Their 2022 show only had one game from a first party Xbox studio that wasn't Bethesda, and I'd like to think that more developers within Xbox Studios have something coming together that can be released within the 365 day window following this presentation, assuming that it takes on that same format as last years did.

If Silksong has no news before this show, it's absolutely being released on the day of the show because it will take place on Day 364/365 since last years show which made a point of saying everything shown will release within 365 days.

This was posted in the E3 2023 thread but not sure what to do about presentation announcements for the E3 window given its cancellation, so I'm quoting it here to share that apparently this showcase will run for about 2 hours, from 10am to 12pm. This seems to be the combined duration for both the Xbox Games Showcase and the Starfield presentation that follows, so I guess it'll be about 90 minutes for the Xbox part and 30 for the Starfield segment.


Also some other things I saw rumoured was a Paper Mario TTYD remaster, although what I saw felt very much like "my uncle works at Nintendo". Just felt like sharing it because I'd like to see it and want to sniff some hopium.

[Mr EliteL]

May give the Xbox Showcase a watch...maybe, or just wait until it's over to see any announcements, yah I'm boring like that.

Also some other things I saw rumoured was a Paper Mario TTYD remaster, although what I saw felt very much like "my uncle works at Nintendo". Just felt like sharing it because I'd like to see it and want to sniff some hopium.

Surely a remaster or remake of the original Paper Mario should come first, then TTYD. If a remake, I call all partners turn into generic versions of their respective species or something, hell even a remaster, shows how much hope I have for that. I'll be happy to eat them words though, so I can experience the joy of those two games again in these "modern" times.

[Moonface]

Also some other things I saw rumoured was a Paper Mario TTYD remaster, although what I saw felt very much like "my uncle works at Nintendo". Just felt like sharing it because I'd like to see it and want to sniff some hopium.

Surely a remaster or remake of the original Paper Mario should come first, then TTYD. If a remake, I call all partners turn into generic versions of their respective species or something, hell even a remaster, shows how much hope I have for that. I'll be happy to eat them words though, so I can experience the joy of those two games again in these "modern" times.

I read that it might be that bringing GC games to NSO is unlikely because of the file sizes of those games being so big, and that instead maybe Nintendo would just remaster the big hitters like they already did for Metroid Prime.

[Maniakkid25]

If it's only the big hitters, then it'd be weird that both Baten Kaitos games are getting remasters, but Paper Mario wouldn't. Quick check online tells me that, worldwide, it pushed nearly 2 million units. I can't find any numbers for Baten Kaitos, but that in and of itself should tell you a lot about how many copies those games sold. And for reference, Metroid Prime sold 2.84 million according to the sources I could find.