Star Wars

[Moonface]

I went to see Rise of Skywalker last night with @ShiraNoMai and although I could put it in the general movie thread, I know there's enough Star Wars fans here to warrant a thread for everything about it even though I expect most people are going to collectively agree on preferring the pre-Disney Star Wars movies.

So yeah, saw the movie last night, and while it was better than The Last Jedi overall, it was still just OK to me. 

The Rise of Skywalker

My biggest gripe was how safe it all felt. For every moment it tried to venture into something new, there was another that just felt plucked from the original trilogy. The ending was the biggest offender of this; Palpatine shows Rey all of her friends being shot down in the sky, urging her to kill him so as to stop it, and then Kylo comes along to help her out and ultimately gives his life to save hers after Palpatine died because of his lightning (again). Worse yet, was how much felt like a blatant Endgame finale rip off:

- Have the small group get overwhelmed? Check.
- Have one dude facing off against an entire army and thinking it's over? Check.
- Follow that with person on the radio announcing the arrival of virtually everyone behind them to save the day? Check.
- Have the villain make some "I am X" remark followed by the hero retorting with the same back as they land the killing blow? Check!

Some of the scene cuts are awful too. A battle between Kylo and Rey is suddenly interrupted with a shot of Leia going "I know what I must do" and then using the last of her life force to project her voice to Kylo. They've heard nothing from Rey's group since they left, have no clue where they are and then suddenly Leia interrupts a fight with no build up on how she even knows it's going on. Fine, explain it away as some force bullshit but it still felt very forced in.

Outside of that movie, what does everyone else think about Star Wars? Anyone checking out The Mandalorian at all?

[Mr EliteL]

Star Wars has become 'meh' to me. Enjoyed the original trilogy as a kid, plus even the prequel trilogy and now I think they're alright. Force Awakens was pretty good but about a level under. Then Last Jedi I haven't seen and probably don't particularly want to nor Rise of Skywalker. Just completely fell off my radar.

Oh! Rogue One is easily the best recent film.

[ShiraNoMai]

I still think they're movies worth seeing just to have experienced it all. It's sort of like not finishing long-running series like Bleach or Naruto and having a finished opinion rather than an arbitrary opinion reliant on your limited experience with the series to have any sort of conversation with.

But yes Rogue One is amazing; I really ought to show Moony it soon, along with the prequels

[Kyng]

I've had a bit of a complicated relationship with Star Wars over the years .

The first one I saw was Episode I, back in 1999 when it was still in cinemas. I have to say, I wasn't really taken in by it - perhaps because it was back-story to three movies which I hadn't yet seen. The name hadn't confused me (I was fully aware that it was a prequel), but maybe it was a mistake not seeing the Original Trilogy first. Anyway, after being disappointed by it, I just moved on to other things.

I only returned to Star Wars in late 2015, a few weeks before Episode VII was due to be released. One of my friends found out that I'd never seen the Original Trilogy, and he insisted that I watch it. I did, and I enjoyed it (my favourite was Episode V) - and then, I enjoyed Episode VII as well .

I then watched Episode III in late 2016, in preparation for seeing Rogue One (since I knew it was going to take place between Episodes III and IV). Since I'd skipped Episode II, the beginning of Episode III was a little tedious for me; however, I did enjoy the last half an hour or so of it! (Then I quite liked Rogue One: it was slow at times, but it had its moments )

Finally, I watched Episode VIII when it came out at the end of 2017. As a film, I thought it was well-made, but... let's just say that I strongly disagreed with some of the story choices >_< .

I haven't yet seen The Rise of Skywalker (so I won't be reading your spoilered thoughts just yet), but I probably will in the not-too-distant future.

[Moonface]

The first one I saw was Episode I, back in 1999 when it was still in cinemas. I have to say, I wasn't really taken in by it - perhaps because it was back-story to three movies which I hadn't yet seen. The name hadn't confused me (I was fully aware that it was a prequel), but maybe it was a mistake not seeing the Original Trilogy first. Anyway, after being disappointed by it, I just moved on to other things. 

I only returned to Star Wars in late 2015, a few weeks before Episode VII was due to be released. One of my friends found out that I'd never seen the Original Trilogy, and he insisted that I watch it. I did, and I enjoyed it (my favourite was Episode V) - and then, I enjoyed Episode VII as well . 

If this was all you wrote we'd be exactly the same in regards to Star Wars. XD

[Kyng]

Well, I did see The Rise of Skywalker in the end, and I guess I'll cross-post my thoughts. I figure it's probably safe to post it without a spoiler tag now, since the movie's been out for almost a month... but, I'll still use a spoiler tag, just in case:

Spoiler

Previously, I specifically said I didn't want them to clone Palpatine... and, that's exactly what they did . Maybe EU fans won't be so disappointed by that particular development, since that already happened there... but, I personally can't help but feel that it's something of an insult to Vader's redemption, since it largely undoes the impact of that. (It also makes me question the impact of clone-Palpatine's death at the end of this movie: how do we know there isn't a backup clone of Palpatine somewhere else? After the original's death in Episode VI, I had no reason to question the finality of his death... but, now that we've seen him come back from the dead once, I'm heavily suspicious that he'd be able to do it again in future movies - at least, as long as Ian McDiarmid is still able and willing to come back...)

On the other hand, I quite liked the revelation that Rey is the granddaughter of Palpatine. I remember there were a lot of different theories about Rey's ancestry after Episode VII came out - and, that was probably my personal favourite one. Not only was it a bit different from what had come before, but it explains how she ended up as a random scavenger on Jakku (she was put there to protect her from herself), which the "Luke's daughter" and "Obi-Wan's granddaughter" theories couldn't really do. The only thing is, it doesn't seem to mesh with the revelation in Episode VIII that her parents were 'nobodies'. I know that this revelation was specifically about parents, and it says nothing about grandparents - but, even if her father had accomplished nothing of significance, his parentage would have made him noteworthy in and of itself. So, this did feel more like a retcon of Episode VIII than an addition to what came before :-/ . Still, the Original Trilogy did things that felt like retcons of previous movies all the time, and it didn't stop me from enjoying those movies .

Another twist that I liked was the one about Hux being a spy for the Resistance. I've seen it said that a good twist is one that you don't see coming, but that makes sense when you look back at it. This twist fit the bill: I didn't see it coming (admittedly mainly because I'd forgotten all about Hux ), but when it came, it immediately made sense, in light of the fact that Hux and Kylo and long shared a rivalry. (Still, I suspect that he can't have been a spy from the beginning... if he was, then why did he lead the blowing-up of those star systems in The Force Awakens :-/ ? Maybe he really was loyal to the First Order at that point, and he only began covertly aiding the Resistance after his main rival became Supreme Leader... that's really the only way I can make sense of it)

I have very mixed feelings about Kylo Ren's redemption. On the one hand, I thought it great that Leia sacrificed herself to redeem him: I kind of knew she was going to die in this movie, and this seemed like the most natural time to do it. On the other hand, the whole sequence seemed a bit rushed and not entirely convincing (there were other pacing issues - particularly in the final battle - but I thought this one was the worst and most noticeable). Then again, I suppose they were limited in what they could do by the untimely death of Carrie Fisher: if she had still been alive, they could have filmed new scenes with her for this, but as it was, they were just working with what they'd got . Based on that, I guess this was the best they could reasonably have been expected to do (while still having Leia sacrifice herself for his redemption).

I was glad that we got to see Kylo Ren (or, rather, Ben Solo) doing some fighting for the good guys: that's not really something we got to see with Darth Vader after he was redeemed. I was also pleased that he sacrificed himself at the end, just like Vader did (so, in that sense, he really did get to "finish what Vader started" ). The only thing that bothered me a bit was when Rey and Ben kissed at the end... it's no biggie, but it just felt a bit corny to me :-/ .

I'm not sure what I think about the droids, especially C-3PO. I find myself unable to decide whether he was amusing or annoying! Still, I liked the whole memory wipe thing, because the trailer strongly suggested that he was going to die... but, the movie surprised me quite pleasantly when he didn't :O . So, I'll give them positive marks for that.

Oh, and at last, Chewbacca got his medal . It was a cute moment, even if it was blatant fanservice. (In fact, there was quite a lot in this movie that was just fanservice... but, I was kind of expecting that, so it didn't bother me too much )

On the whole, I thought of it much the same way that I thought of The Last Jedi: it was enjoyable to watch, but I really didn't like some of the additions that it made to the Star Wars canon. In fact, because Episodes VIII and IX seemed to be locked in a tug-of-war of "Where should the plot go?", the Sequel Trilogy as a whole just failed to tell a coherent story >_< . On the whole, I think I got my money's worth out of this trilogy - in the sense that I had a good time while I was in the cinema - but I'm glad it's over.

Also, two days before I saw The Rise of Skywalker, I saw Solo for the first time. I thought that was a fun movie... if you just thought of it as its own stand-alone thing which had nothing to do with any of the rest of the Star Wars canon. It's not a movie I can take seriously, though.

[Moonface]

Anyone else watched The Mandalorian at all? @ShiraNoMai and I started it the other night and we're only two episodes in so far, but it looks like it'll get decent. It was a little slow going in the first episode to the point I started to lose interest, and I'm hoping there's more to the story than "guy has adventures while trying to deliver a child to a destination" but I guess I'll have to wait and see. I've only heard good things about the show so I hope it does have more to it than I think but for all I know it could be just shallow but really entertaining like a popcorn flick. XD

[ShiraNoMai]

I love that it's very much unlike what Disney has put out, with the exception of Rogue One (and I really love Rogue One). It's got that vibe of "It's the same universe but doesn't have to revolve entirely around magic bullshit"

[Moonface]

I wonder if Rogue One wasn't touched much because it wasn't going to become a series and therefore doesn't have much mileage for making money and merchandise. I wouldn't be surprised for a lot of things that happened in the new trilogy to have been done in response to what was making money in the last movie. Like if Finn wasn't selling well it would add to why his character got bulldozed to oblivion in the two sequels.

Not that I want another trilogy, but I do hope the reception to Mandalorian and stand alones like Rogue One gets Disney to keep letting these smaller projects do their own thing and get successful by knowing what to do naturally, rather than just trying to boost numbers. The recent trilogy and Mandalorian is like watching WWE pushing the shit out of a wrestler because they want sales, and then letting that same wrestler do their own thing when they finally realise their approach isn't working well and see that the outcome ends up better.

[Kyng]

I haven't watched The Mandalorian yet (because I don't have a Disney+ subscription). However, I have heard good things about it, so I might subscribe over the holiday season, just so that I can see it .

Still, I do hope this isn't the end of the Star Wars movies. I don't want an "Episode X-XII" trilogy (since the ending of Episode IX didn't exactly leave me wanting more), but given how successful the Mandalorian has been, I don't see why a movie about those characters wouldn't work. (Of course, I might change my mind on that when/if I actually see the series!)

[ShiraNoMai]

The end of the last trilogy marked the end of the Skywalker Saga, as it were, so we wouldn't see any more with that nonsense in the way. It's have to fall in line with stuff like The Mandolorian where it's just a continuation of the in-universe canon and such. The interesting part will be expanding it beyond the canon timeline. Most other Star Wars content falls in the timeline of the main series, so it'll be interesting to see where they'd take things further in regards to the whole political scene, as it were (Jedi and Sith).

[Moonface]

I think there could be movies made that aren't episodes. The Mandalorian is an example of good content that doesn't need to be attached heavily to the episodic movies, and Jedi: Fallen Order is great too with minimal attachment to the episodic movies too. I doubt it'll happen though until Disney is certain the investment is worth it, but Mandalorian is probably doing a good job at winning them over with that idea.

[ShiraNoMai]

Well the other movies they've released have been considered "side-stories", which is why they're usually subtitled "A Star Wars Story". Honestly, for how forgettable/whatever Solo was, I'd take that over what happened in the mainline series.

[Moonface]

Honestly, for how forgettable/whatever Solo was, I'd take that over what happened in the mainline series.

Yeah, I had to go look up the plot again to remember it and I think the problem with it is that it has to play safe because of being an origin story. They're restricted by what the character turns out as and have to keep a story contained to reach that outcome. It'll be interesting to see if the Obi Wan movie that's coming out will do a better job.

[ShiraNoMai]

The cool thing about Obi Wan's character is he's got a lot of past that's never covered in the main series, just his role in Anakin's and Luke's paths as Jedi. Hoping it's slice-of-life Obi Wan on Tattooine, folding his laundry, dusting off some plants. (He wasn't up to much before the series apparently)

Just finished Mandolorian tonight and damn, I love that show. As Moony said to me tonight, goes to show what Disney can do when they hire competent people with an appropriate and SOLID direction.