What's Worse: Ice or Water Levels/Physics?

[Moonface]

Any time water or ice turns up in a level or game, it almost always results in impacting player control in some fashion to varying degrees of inconvenience and annoyance. But what do you think is worse? Do you think overall one is worse than the other, or maybe it's dependent on the genre of game? For games that feature both, is one always worse than the other or does it vary?

As a gut response I want to say water is generally worse, at least for platformers. Ice usually doesn't remove any player movement but just makes it harder to keep control until you get used to it, whereas water levels always make you move slower or just make movement feel worse entirely, especially when it adds vertical direction that isn't present when the character is on land.

[Dragon Lord]

Depends on how the individual game does it. Some games make it so when you're on ice, you slip and slide every where without much control, where as others make it so that you just have a little bit of sliding when you move. When it's overdone, it's pretty terrible. I myself like when games incorporate sliding puzzles on ice (Pokmemon Gold/Silver for example).

The same thing applies to water levels. Just depends on how that particular game handles it. Overall, I'd say that developers fail to make water mechanics work well compared to ice.

[ShiraNoMai]

Yeah, I agree with DL. I think devs aren't sure how to work with how the way these real life mechanisms can operate in a fun and engaging way most times. The focus tends to be on making them as realistic as possible and turn it into an obstacle rather than something that can be used to the advantage of it (as is the case with Pokemon Gold/Silver puzzles)

[Mr EliteL]

Usually water levels are worse than ice. Especially if the water level involves going underwater or the water is used to hamper your movement. Although both can be a good challenge if it doesn't change the style of gameplay too drastically.

Might be remembering wrong but I think Crash games or at least the main games (+ the two GBA games I've played) have both fine water and ice levels. Trying to think of other games that have a distinct level of each for comparison between them but can't think of much.

[Moonface]

Might be remembering wrong but I think Crash games or at least the main games (+ the two GBA games I've played) have both fine water and ice levels. Trying to think of other games that have a distinct level of each for comparison between them but can't think of much.

Ice in Crash wouldn't be bad if not for the inertia you get from it which makes jumping onto a box on ice very difficult, while water slows you down and feels weighty.

Spyro on the other hand does both much better, especially the swimming. It feels very similar to flying in flight levels, but with the ability to charge. Ice is interesting because they don't let you jump on it, so you can't just negate the effects of it like a lot of platformers let you.

Anyone else got specific games they want to point out?

[Metallix]

Always have hated water levels. Getting flashbacks to Chemical Plant Zone and dying several times under the water. Makes physics more floaty and slow.

[ShiraNoMai]

Sonic water levels are some of the worst. It's not helped by the anxiety-inducing drowning music that happens when you start to run out of air. Not fun when you're trapped in a corner unable to platform out in time.

[Moonface]

Sonic is a very good example for me of why water physics are generally worse in games. Sonic is this fast speed game and water slows that way down. Although it makes sense for it to do that, it feels pretty jarring to go from high speed to something slower and in some cases, more precise because the platforms get made smaller. Not sure what a solution would be for water in Sonic, except to maybe make Sonic's jump shorter because his speed only works to carve through the water when running.