Lies of P | Version 1.3.0.0 Patch

[queenzelda]

I actually like the idea of this game, so I did download and try the demo but the combat feels strangely imbalanced to me. I even tried different sword set ups and got as far as the hotel. I was kind of done after that, idk. I think for now I'll wait and try again later with fresh eyes. My friend said it was a souls like but it doesn't really feel like that to me. Idk.

[Moonface]

I actually like the idea of this game, so I did download and try the demo but the combat feels strangely imbalanced to me.

I'm curious what you mean exactly by imbalanced. Not questioning because I disagree or anything, I just wonder what the specifics are.

[queenzelda]

Like when I played Fire Emblem for the Wii and the main character was a tank with some enemies but turned into paper against others. It's a LOT like that impo. *shrug*

[Moonface]

Like when I played Fire Emblem for the Wii and the main character was a tank with some enemies but turned into paper against others. It's a LOT like that impo. *shrug*

Wouldn't this be an issue at some point in most games that involve levelling up systems though, since until you get to a high enough level you'll occasionally come across enemies that are really strong against your character compared to others, maybe even in a way to try and encourage you to come back at a later point? If there's no feeling of progression against stronger enemies gradually becoming easier it would probably make the whole level up system fall apart.

[Dragon Lord]

It's not an issue at all. Just like any Souls-like game, there are bigger/stronger enemies around than the rest that require a little more caution to overcome. You actually have to pay attention and learn their moves and how to combat them instead of just running up and normal attack spamming them to death.

Calling that "imbalance" is 100% a player skill issue and not an issue with the game lmao. Enemies aren't just going to instantly die the moment you look at them, and if that's what someone wants, they are playing the wrong game.

Demo is fine, game is wonderful. The only criticism I have about anything is the lack of a parry, which since this game is heavily inspired by Bloodborne, would make the combat just feel that much more complete if they included one, but it's a minor issue and the combat still feels good without it. It'd just be the cherry on top if it was there. Either way this is going to be a good one when it comes out.

[Moonface]

The only criticism I have about anything is the lack of a parry...

Isn't that what a perfect block is in this game?

[Dragon Lord]

No, perfect blocking just makes it so you don't take damage/no stamina gets used. It doesn't stagger the enemy at all and allow you to do a counter attack. In boss battles, this means you have to perfect block the entire attack chain from the boss to actually gain any benefit from it (that benefit being a couple of seconds to attack).

[Moonface]

Oh that's right, I forgot that in Bloodborne it causes instant stagger. I did read that apparently a perfect block in this game does increase the stagger meter on an enemy but I don't know if that's true or just speculation.

[Dragon Lord]

Could possibly be true. There's no meter that shows stagger amount, so I'd have to sit there and test it a bunch to find out if it's true. Even if it is though, Perfect Blocking still feels extremely unsatisfying and not worth the effort over just dodging and countering like you would in a Souls game.

[Moonface]

Even if it is though, Perfect Blocking still feels extremely unsatisfying and not worth the effort over just dodging and countering like you would in a Souls game.

Yeah, I usually only bothered to perfect block an attack if I just wanted to keep close to an enemy to be aggressive or if it was one of the attacks where the enemy glows red and the only counter to it is to perfect block unless you're already far away enough to be able to dodge it. I also think the stagger mechanic in general wasn't particularly good either, since regular enemies seemed to never get staggered (nor be worth doing it to versus just dodging their stuff and would be dead in only a few hits anyway) and even if I did stagger anyone the game seems to be very picky about where you need to be to trigger the critical strike. The amount of times I would be hitting R1 on a staggered boss and nothing would happen was a lot, and even when I would get it I wouldn't generally know I did until my character did multiple fancy strikes automatically because there isn't really an obvious tell when you've successfully triggered it compared to Souls games where you can always tell you've triggered it. Hopefully that's something the devs clear up as part of their approach to readability improvements.

I also think the game needs to do a better job with demonstrating why you can level up at a regular Stargazer prior to reaching Hotel Krat. Due to the game allowing that in the demo I immediately got confused as to why I could no longer level up at a Stargazer after reaching the hotel, not realizing that I was now locked to only using the hotel for levelling up. Having to Google to find out why a mechanic suddenly changed on me is really bad game design and although the developers explained why they want levelling up to be exclusively at the hotel, the game doesn't convey any of that intent.


Outside of demo views though, what class did people pick for the demo? If memory serves me right I went with the Strength build and I'll probably go for that class again in the full game. I did try out the weapon building feature a little bit but ended up just sticking with the standard sword the strength class gets and then had the Electric Coil for my secondary as any modifications I tried out didn't really feel better than the vanilla variants, although my biggest issue was I got so used to running a two-handed weapon for my main that when I modded it into a one-handed weapon I kept dying from trying to use it against the horde of enemies in the area immediately after you leave the hotel. I'm not sure why I had so much trouble with running that weapon as a one-handed because I was fine using the Electric Coil which is also a one-handed. It made me wonder whether or not there's a different level of range on weapons and changing the Greatsword of Fate to one-handed reduces the range to something lower than the Electric Coil which was causing me to struggle hitting enemies with it.

I'm also curious if anyone has an initial run in mind for the lie system. I expect I'll run the telling the truth/being human route on my first go since the game either encourages you pick those options or they just feel like the nicer choice such as when responding to the woman with the baby. I suspect lying is the good ending by turning you human and telling the truth will be the "bad" ending where you end up showing you're not really any better than the rest of the machines and Geppetto (or someone through him) tries to put you down because you're going to be a problem like the rest.

[Dragon Lord]

I have yet to finish my demo run (distracted by other games), but I did the Quality build, since that's the build I tend to do on first runs of Souls games so I can have access to all weapons in the game to play around and find the ones I enjoy the most. If I get around to it, I tend to re-play the demo two more times using the STR and DEX builds as well.

Also I might be remembering wrong, but doesn't Sophia tell you at that first Stargazer that you can level up at that one specifically because she infused it with some of her power? I could have sworn there was some line in there about that. I'll have to pay attention to that part of the game again when I do a second run through to make sure.

[Moonface]

If she says that line I may have either missed it or I misunderstood it as meaning I can use that one to level up but not that it means all the other ones I've encountered before the hotel no longer offer the option to level up. Considering the demo no longer has an expiry date I might replay with another class to see how they feel and then I can pay more attention to the hotel dialogue and see what specifically gets said.

[queenzelda]

Oh I see because it's Souls like everyone expects eveyone else to get gud sun or not play. I did play I still think the game is imperfect and needs more time to cook. Even the opening is like, oh you gotta go save Gepetto without even explaining why I should. This game seems interesting but has not much of a plot if any, is souls like to make everyone thinks they have to get better at it without actually doing any work to make a more interesting story, or even a half way decent boss that looks like something Dr Ivan Robotnic pulled from out of his a** on a good day.

I think Imma pass on this game.

[Dragon Lord]

This game seems interesting but has not much of a plot if any, is souls like to make everyone thinks they have to get better at it without actually doing any work to make a more interesting story, or even a half way decent boss that looks like something Dr Ivan Robotnic pulled from out of his a** on a good day.

I think Imma pass on this game.

Tell me you've never played a Dark Souls game without telling me you've never played a Dark Souls game.

>Game is heavily inspired by Souls and Bloodborne
>Souls and Bloodborne don't hold the player's hand in combat and make the player learn and get good at the game's mechanics
>Souls and Bloodborne make the player find the story themselves and don't spoon feed it to the player
>Game inspired by Souls and Bloodborne does the same thing <insert shocked Pikachu face here>

[Moonface]

Oh I see because it's Souls like everyone expects eveyone else to get gud sun or not play. I did play I still think the game is imperfect and needs more time to cook. Even the opening is like, oh you gotta go save Gepetto without even explaining why I should. This game seems interesting but has not much of a plot if any, is souls like to make everyone thinks they have to get better at it without actually doing any work to make a more interesting story, or even a half way decent boss that looks like something Dr Ivan Robotnic pulled from out of his a** on a good day.

I think Imma pass on this game.

Assuming this game is taking a lot of inspiration from the Souls genre, the story isn't going to be given a ton of direct focus like a typical game would get. A lot of it will be up in the air and left for players to piece together, such as how Gepetto being rescued is because he is the creator of the player character (and presumably the creator of a lot of the machines now running amok in the game world) and is either someone the main character cares for or just sees him as being of use to stopping the chaos going on. Most of the world building in the demo is through notes the player has to find and environmental story telling; it may not be for everyone, but that's pretty much the approach the Souls genre takes to its story telling. Whether the story of this game is interesting or not overall no one can say because who knows what the rest of the game will be like, but mileage varies wildly based on what you come across and how you interpret it. There's probably not going to be much the game outright spells out for you on the lore and story front, and it is unfortunately a double edged sword of the genre as a whole. I love Bloodborne but there are some elements to the story that the game either never shared or I just never found/picked up on, but I also never went into the game for the story at all so I wasn't disappointed or bothered by what it did with that. For me the story in these sorts of games is there to just give some degree of reason for anything being the way it is, similar to early platformers that just go "Here's the bad guy, here's the world you're in, off you go" and do very little else but focus on gameplay. I'd say if the gameplay didn't grab you, it wouldn't be worth playing the game when it releases simply because I think the gameplay is meant to be the core pillar of this sort of genre, and if that doesn't do it for you anything else in the game is not going to make up for that.