Universal Chat Thread

[Moonface]

Well, to be fair, a $15 minimum wage would not change anything. Everything will just go up in price to counter-balance the increase. It'll appear that people are making more money, but then you'll realize that a gallon of milk has suddenly gone up $2-$3. So while it sounds good in theory, in the end it won't make a difference because prices will just increase with it. It's how it always works.

I can't really get behind forgiving student loans either. I have a couple of friends who went to college, fucked around for 4-5 years, had absolutely no plan in place for what they wanted to go for, and now they want the government to 100% forgive their loans. They deserve to be stuck with that debt.

The ideal scenario is because people have more money, they can now buy more things, which means the increase in wages is counterbalanced by an increase in spending. The minimum wage could stay as it is for the next ten years but prices won't stay the same for the next ten years. Instead of a reasonable price that sees more units sold, people will look at the short term immediate money that a single sale can get instead.

I don't like the idea of forgiving loans either because there are too many issues it presents. Also, it doesn't resolve the problem of people who have yet to pursue degrees and will inevitably have a loan from that. That's why I say the loans and fees should be less predatory of doing nothing but putting people into debt that takes stupid long to repay because of ridiculous interest rates. Wiping the slate clean doesn't stop it getting dirty again if you don't fix what made it dirty to begin with.

[Karo]

Honestly minimum wages not going up doesn't stop things from getting more expensive and prices have continued to raise either way so I say raise the minimum wage. Make shitty jobs worth something and if your getting paid for the same miniscule raise you can now go tell your boss to go fuck themselves and get a job at mcdonalds for the same price.

As for student loans free education and forgiveness for all education is important and frankly it getting more and more required if you want your citizen to be knowledgeable and well informed free college is a must. What if they are indecisive like Night Lord's friends? I'd still say forgiveness because they might have been indecisive about their career choice or their mental health not in good shape.

[Moonface]

This country can't even handle the idea of less expensive healthcare, there is no way free college will ever happen. But I don't think charging for college is bad, I just think the cost is super high but worse than that is just how bad the loans are. Everyone knows most students will need a loan, and it's pretty fucked up to offer bad loan deals knowing the situation largely calls for those loans to be required in the first place if you want a shot at college.

The forgiveness thing is also a little screwed up because I had to pay for my tuition out of pocket, so now I can't get anything from forgiveness. Not that I'm going to use that to claim no one else should get it because I don't like the idea that just because I got a bad hand everyone else should, but forgiveness isn't an easy thing to get right when you can compare someone like me who had to scrape money together getting nothing while DL's friends would get it and (going off what he said) may not necessarily deserve to receive it.

[Dragon Lord]

Honestly minimum wages not going up doesn't stop things from getting more expensive and prices have continued to raise either way so I say raise the minimum wage. Make shitty jobs worth something and if your getting paid for the same miniscule raise  you can now go tell your boss to go fuck themselves and get a job at mcdonalds for the same price.

But should people flipping burgers get higher pay? Like, I work a job that has shit pay, but that's entirely my own fault for never going to college and setting up a career for myself. I can't complain about making less money. I'm not going to complain about wages being too low when it was my own negligence in not having set up a better plan for myself in life. Jobs like McDonalds shouldn't have competitive wages with jobs that require college degrees. If I want higher pay, I should have figured out what I wanted to do in life and got my ass moving on it when I was younger. 

Free College is a terrible idea as well, because that would give a lot more incentive to people to go fuck around at a "party school" for four years, wasting government money (which would likely come from a huge hike in taxes for us), and not actually doing any schooling. Better system for loans, as Moon pointed out, and better grants/scholarships would be a better route to take for that.

[Moonface]

Honestly minimum wages not going up doesn't stop things from getting more expensive and prices have continued to raise either way so I say raise the minimum wage. Make shitty jobs worth something and if your getting paid for the same miniscule raise  you can now go tell your boss to go fuck themselves and get a job at mcdonalds for the same price.

But should people flipping burgers get higher pay? Like, I work a job that has shit pay, but that's entirely my own fault for never going to college and setting up a career for myself. I can't complain about making less money. I'm not going to complain about wages being too low when it was my own negligence in not having set up a better plan for myself in life. Jobs like McDonalds shouldn't have competitive wages with jobs that require college degrees. If I want higher pay, I should have figured out what I wanted to do in life and got my ass moving on it when I was younger. 

To be fair though, a job needing a degree wouldn't get away with $15 wages if that was the minimum of every job and would instead be higher like it already is. It's just that the people working the lower end jobs will get better wages, and the problem is you always need people to work those jobs and people would still want to do better for themselves with degrees like they already do, but without the push of a lower end job being punishing with wages that can't support a family. I'd look at it like how I can get a degree and get a job with good wages, but if I got a Masters I can get even more wages. I wouldn't necessarily pick a Masters just because it's that or work a shit job with shit pay, but because I want to do better for myself than what I can get already, which is something I think would be nice for all job levels.

[Karo]

Even still I'd love to see us slowly work toward these goals. I dont think college getting money is bad but some of the prices are just absurd and the loans you might have to take are pretty scary. College really should be accessible to everyone. Plus really does the college system really need to reap you over the coals for everything?

For the forgiveness thing I feel like it does suck but if it ever comes a reality where let's say you go back to college in like 5 years you need aid so you get a loan but this times it's for free. That's pretty awesome for you and anyone else that goes to college. I'm kinda of the mind that hey if everyone gets forgiven or has access to college are there really deserving and undeserving? We dont know the circumstances of everyone around us.

@Dragon Lord I feel like a job is a job and some people might like their minimum wage jobs do you not deserve a living wage because you work a minimum wage job? Just because you weren't sure what you wanted to do with your life doesnt mean you should be treated like shit and unable to live. Frankly all jobs are hard work and all deserve a living wage and I feel like the higher you raise minimum wage the higher these college degree jobs are going to have to pay you. because they are going to want to maintain themselves as a "higher class"

[Moonface]

I feel like the higher you raise minimum wage the higher these college degree jobs are going to have to pay you. because they are going to want to maintain themselves as a "higher class"

They'd have to even if you took out the "higher class" stuff because who the fuck is going to get into college debt to secure a job paying the same amount of money as something I could just go and walk into without a degree?

[Karo]

Exactly! I feel it puts more power into the workers hands really. If you could get a living wage job anywhere you wouldn't have to stick to shitty work conditions and we wouldn't be slaves to jobs we hate if minimum wage was a living wage.

[Moonface]

If you could get a living wage job anywhere you wouldn't have to stick to shitty work conditions...

Mm, depends. You still have the problem of someone having to stick at a job because their current health insurance is tied to it. Granted, if the prices didn't go up and the wages did then it would be easier to afford it by yourself, but it's probably not a good idea to put all the eggs into that one basket of an ideal situation.

Also since I don't expect anyone to know but don't want to ask it by itself and stagnate conversation, why is it that basically every book claims to be a New York Times #1 best seller? Virtually every book at my job has that on the cover and I've never heard of any of them nor the authors. I know I'm not a bookworm but to have never heard of anything with that accolade attached to it makes me question the accolade.

[Maniakkid25]

It's a marketing gimmick; New York Times themselves have admitted the list is just editorial, not an actual reflection of copies sold.

[Moonface]

Looking at the fast sales part, sounds like books probably try to release at a quiet time to guarantee they get the most sales in a week by not being against any competition. I didn't know they marked books with a symbol though if they discover copies were bulk purchased to try and game the system (not that the system sounds very good to begin with).

[Karo]

Free College is a terrible idea as well, because that would give a lot more incentive to people to go fuck around at a "party school" for four years, wasting government money (which would likely come from a huge hike in taxes for us), and not actually doing any schooling. Better system for loans, as Moon pointed out, and better grants/scholarships would be a better route to take for that.

Whoops I missed this part so I know that this is part of college culture and if that what your friends did for four years and did nothing academically with no degree that's a waste! I feel like colleges should try to stamp that type of thing out I can get people excitement for being free and in their own but if you waste your entire college time just on that then frankly I dont think you should be entitled to free education. You wasted yours and your professor time for partying when you can do that without college help. 

I still support free college but with this caveat it must be for the academics and not just an excuse to party I was thinking your friends had some trouble deciding or some other issues came up not literally partying their way to flunking out.

[Moonface]

Good morning everyone!

[ShiraNoMai]

Halting everything for the abuse of a few is silly. Like Yuri said, if this can be future proofed to avoid future incidents, this would be fine.

[Maniakkid25]

So, according to Youtube, Paradox Alice has hit 100 views. Now, actually watching the analytics shows that there is a STEEP drop-off in viewership at about the 30 second mark (which is completely understandable, given the preface I make), so I wonder how many of those views are actual views, and how many are just people that get scared off right at the start. *shrug*