Lies of P | Version 1.3.0.0 Patch

[Dragon Lord]

I'm sure they had the DLC planned before the release of the game. Might have been a case like Dark Souls, where the DLC was supposed to be part of teh base game, but they ran out of time and had to cut it out, but were able to finish it and tack it on as DLC later.

I see you beat the Nameless Puppet last night. How did you enjoy that boss battle? Did you get screwed over by any of its bullshit combos that it can pull out of no where? It doesn't seem to always do them, but man when it does, it seems to do NOTHING but that combo.

Nameless Puppet was the boss that made me realize just how good the grinder that gives the auto-perfect guard effect was.

[Moonface]

I see you beat the Nameless Puppet last night. How did you enjoy that boss battle? Did you get screwed over by any of its bullshit combos that it can pull out of no where? It doesn't seem to always do them, but man when it does, it seems to do NOTHING but that combo.

Nameless Puppet was the boss that made me realize just how good the grinder that gives the auto-perfect guard effect was.

No, I didn't beat Nameless Puppet. I defeated Simon and started the Nameless Puppet fight, but didn't beat it yet. The first phase was fine, but the second phase was straight bullshit. I had no durability left on my weapon at the start of that phase and kept trying to use an Emergency Repair Tool but the boss wouldn't even give me a second to use it, which is incredibly frustrating. Every time it finished a combo it went straight into another string before I even had a chance to open my Extra Bag. It genuinely pisses me off how many fights in this game I've lost because of the game just never giving me a moment to breathe, rather than me making a mistake. Weapon durability is such a trash system in this game that if anyone likes it in this game yet criticizes BotW's weapon durability they're a hypocrite.

[Dragon Lord]

Ah, okay. Yeah, I've been waiting to see what you think of Nameless Puppet. Agree that his second phase is pure bullshit. Never stops attacking, can close on you at pretty much any distance, and his attack strings can go on for so long that you can end up running out of stamina to roll and just eat the rest of the combo without being able to do anything about it.

The grinder for guaranteed Perfect Blocks can come in handy for the start of the second phase because you SHOULD be able to get a stagger in on him from him attacking you, which will help in getting an early lead on him. Unfortunately that's a very small advantage in this particular boss fight. You can also the the uhhh... shield arm thing, which will help you fend him off for as long as your Legion will last. You can also take advantage of a... I don't know if it's a bug or what with the shield, but if you hold the shield out with L2 and just spam the crap out of L1, you can get perfect blocks on all of his attacks. Unfortunately as I mentioned, this only lasts as long as your Legion done, but it can give you a slight head start on his second phase. Then you just have to hope that you're able to survive him long enough to deplete the rest of his HP. Run and throw tactics with throwing items is 100% recommended, but be careful because he can close the gap between the two of you and punish you endlessly in the blink of an eye. Have to be very careful when you choose to use a throwable.

But yeah, welcome to the last fight in the game. Couldn't let the player go without one last absolutely bullshit two-phase boss fight, because god forbid these developers don't lean on that like a fucking crutch.

[Moonface]

If I get a chance tonight I'll try the fight with the Perfect Guard Grinder and the Shield Legion, since I went in yesterday with the fire grinder and the gun legion which didn't do squat. Also didn't help I wasn't expecting a fight so I had no amulets equipped that would be good against a puppet enemy.

Also some regular enemies feel like they're worse than the bosses can be. There's one enemy on your final climb to the Simon who throws out ridiculous amounts of Disruption gas, and hits so hard it could almost empty my health bar in only a few hits. I guess they're more like mini bosses really since they never respawn, but I can't think of many in the game I've fought and not hated every second of it because they never feel fun.

[Dragon Lord]

Yeah, the Elite enemies throughout the game are absolute ass for the most part. That Jester puppet you encounter in the Arcade basement, and then another one in the tower (I believe it's the part right after you enter from defeating the Door Guardian) is one of the most cancerous enemies I've ever had to deal with in a game. The fact that other enemies will attack it with you is a clear sign that the devs knew they were making an absolute crap enemy.

I also hated some of the... I guess you could cal them Mid Bosses (term used for bosses that are in the middle of a level, but aren't actually the main boss of the area). Like that Clown right before you get to the Opera House where the King of Puppets is. That guy was an absolute shit show on my first play through.

Then you have "mid boss" enemies like The Puppet of Tomorrow who is an absolute joke. Like, my first play through, I defeated the one in the factory before I even knew you could drain the poison. I just deal with Corruption eating away at my HP while fighting it because the boss itself wasn't even close to being a threat. I mean, I did die to it a few times because I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings and got myself stuck against a wall and couldn't avoid it's attacks, but other than my own stupidity, the dude was a complete joke.

Fighting some of the human enemies was also a pain in the ass. The first encounter against the Survivor was a nightmare because I didn't realize that if I stood next to him, he'd just endlessly attack with no stopping. That was the first time in the game where I was like, "...You're not serious?"

[Moonface]

Then you have "mid boss" enemies like The Puppet of Tomorrow who is an absolute joke. Like, my first play through, I defeated the one in the factory before I even knew you could drain the poison. I just deal with Corruption eating away at my HP while fighting it because the boss itself wasn't even close to being a threat. I mean, I did die to it a few times because I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings and got myself stuck against a wall and couldn't avoid it's attacks, but other than my own stupidity, the dude was a complete joke.

KEKW I did this exact same thing of fighting that boss before draining the poison because I didn't expect draining the poison to be a thing. I kept just camping out on the two spots under the ladders where no poison was to avoid getting inflicted with the status.


So I beat Nameless Puppet last night after a couple of tries, helped majorly by using the strats you suggested @Dragon Lord. Can't say I felt anything for Gepetto dying in the final cutscene because the prick deserved it. And dang, that NG+ prompt is really bad and if I didn't read it carefully I'd have used X thinking I was just acknowledging my understanding of the prompt and not that it was actually wanting a decision from me in that moment. Having seen that most of the missable stuff in the hotel is tied to trophies would really piss me off had I missed it by going straight into NG+.

[Dragon Lord]

Yeah, and as I mentioned before, the fact that there's absolutely no warning that there may be new things to collect in the "post-game." At least give some what of a hint so that players don't just go into NG+ thinking it's like every other game.

Thankfully it didn't end up being too bad for me though. Thanks to PS+, I was able to abuse Cloud saves to get the other two endings and re-do the first ending to get what I missed all from my NG+ file instead of having to go into NG+2. The only thing that determines which of the two endings you get (at least the two from not giving you heart) is the choice you make with Sophia. So all I had to do was upload my file right before making that choice, and then just download it when I needed to. Although it was annoying having to fight Nameless Puppet a third time, it was much better than having to go all the way through and do it on NG+2 where he'd be even stronger.

I think you could technically get all trophies on one cycle abusing save uploads. Because you don't need all the boss amulets, just their weapons for a trophy, so just take all the weapons instead, then upload your save before Sophia, make one choice, beat the game, go back to the hotel to get the final story piece you need > download save > beat Simon Manus > upload save to the Cloud again > either give up your heart or fight Namless Puppet for the other ending you didn't do > download save from Cloud and give your heart for the last ending.

Perhaps that's something I'll keep in mind if I decide to ever pick up the game on Steam (perhaps after waiting to see how much they patch it between now and when they move on from the game, and give it another play to see how all the possible changes makes the game feel).

[Moonface]

Alas I don't have PS+ to abuse cloud saving nor am I going to buy it just for that, so I'll likely have to do NG+2. I beat Fuoco again today and did it first try so NG+ seems easier so far, and I know NG+2 has a 7th P-Organ tier that has some incredibly good things in it that makes the game a breeze apparently.

[Dragon Lord]

Yeah, that's at least one neat thing about NG+ and NG+2. I didn't go into NG+2 to see what the seventh P-Organ offered though. Not sure how much the difficulty ramps up there, but NG+ was definitely noticeably easier, at least until you get to the last few bosses. Though getting so much Ergo and being able to just pump your HP and Stamina to insane levels, while also getting all the Quartz again to unlock more and more bonuses in the P-Organ until you're practically geared up with everything does make the game so much smoother, and it FEELS SO MUCH BETTER that way too. Which really goes to show that they just locked too many things that should have been basic design behind the P-Organ system.

One thing I also realized in NG+ is that I had forgotten to get the P-Organ upgrade that lets you out of a knockdown with a roll. I'm willing to bet I would have saved myself a LOT of frustration in my first play through had I remembered to unlock that.

[Moonface]

I was curious what the 7th P-Organ phase contains, which is the following:

Phase 7 Powers

• Add Legion Arm Slots 2 - As it says, gives additional Legion arm slot
  
• Fury Attack Guard - Allows P to guard Fury attacks as if they were normal attacks
  
• Add Amulet Slots 3 - Again, as written
  
• Light Weight - This drops all weight classes by 1 bracket
  

Attack Type

• Lowers natural Recovery upon weapon attack 2
  
• Enhances Charge ATK
  
• Lower Weapon Durability Consuption 2
  
• Enhance ATK from Behind
  

Survival Type

• Reduce Stamina Consumption of Dodge when Discharged
  
• Complete recovery of Guard Regain upon guarding a Fury attack
  
• Enhances attribute status ailment recovery
  
• Enhances special status ailment recovery
  

Ability Type

• Charges Legion Arm Fable (Partially charges Fable during Legion arm attacks)
  
• Perfect Guard No Stamina (Does not consume Stamina when a Perfect Guard is successful)
  
• Charge Legion when eliminating an enemy 3
  
• Perfect guard Fable Charge Enhance 3
  

Item Type

• Lower Ergo Loss upon Death 3
  
• Charges Legion upon Pulse Cell use
  
• Special Grindstone Increases Effect Duration 2
  
• Reduces item prices 2
  

Legion Arm Slots is whatever, but the ability to block Fury attacks as if they're normal ones and drop your weight down without upgrading Capacity are both insanely good. Can't say any of the enhancements are particularly amazing except for the Special Grindstone use increase.

Also, I discovered a couple of cool facts about the game the other day:

1. P's shadow will show his nose growing when you lie.
   
2. Phase one of Laxasia can be beaten without damaging her if you manage to break her weapon. Breaking it immediately plays the cutscene for phase two where she changes her weapon.
   

[Dragon Lord]

Extra Legion Arm is very pointless since there's only two good ones and having a third one equipped would just add to your weight.

Fury Attack Guard is definitely an amazing one. That way if you mess up the Perfect Guard, at least you can still slightly reduce the damage you would take. Adding another Amulet is also 10/10 upgrade. Light Weight is also a really good upgrade to grab.

As for the sub-bonuses, I'd say...

Enhance Charge ATK > Enhance ATK from behind > Special Grindstone Effect Duration > Perfect Guard No Stamina > Perfect Guard Fable Charge > Reduce Stamina Consumption when Discharged > Charge Legion Arm Fable > Lower Weapon Durability Consumption > Charge Legion when eliminating enemy > Charge Legion upon Pulse Cell use > Complete Recovery of Guard Regain when guarding Fury Attack > Lower Ergo Loss Upon Death > Enhances Attribute status ailment recovery > Enhances special status effect recovery > Reduce Item Prices > Lowers Natural Recovery from Weapon Attack

Definitely has me interested in doing a NG+2 run just to see how much this stuff adds to the game. Might have to get the game on Steam at some point after all so I can do another 100% run and just go through NG+2 this time.

The Charge ATK enhance and the ATK from Behind increase would pair so well with the spear you get from the Archbishop Ergo. The charged attack on that is so good, especially for rolling behind and enemy, turning around quickly, charging it up and letting it rip into the boss.

[Moonface]

Yeah, any upgrades that let you have extra arms or weapons all feel useless because of the weight gain it'll give. Even then I just don't feel the need to have three weapons, and maybe two arms could be useful but I barely remember to use the one I have.

Seeing you mention the lower weapon durability consumption in your ranking list reminds me of a few things I keep questioning when I notice them in the game:

1. Why are there upgrades for lowering durability loss of slashing and stabbing weapons, but nothing for blunt (which I assume is also classified as strike?)?
   
2. I can never really tell sometimes whether a particular set of enemies in an area are using when it comes to pierce/slash/strike to know what protective armor piece to wear. Especially since without just testing things there's no way of knowing for sure if something is lessening damage for you or not.
   

It also seems hitting Level 30 or so on anything that involves increasing your damage output more or less gives negligible increases. Any time I check putting a level up into a damage output based stat it goes up by like +1 which feels so useless I'm just pouring levels into health and stamina now, although even stamina is only going by like +2 which feels like nothing.

[Dragon Lord]

Yeah, I think 30 is the "soft cap" for stats. At least the scaling from STR and DEX. I'd have to hop on and check my stats again, but I'm pretty sure I stopped at 30 TECH and then put all of my level ups from there into Vitality, Vigor and Capacity.

Or maybe I just went up to 40 TECH anyways, I don't remember. Most of the time in Fromsouls games the soft cap for STR/DEX is 40 or 50, so I might have went up to 40 just purely out of habit from all the many years of playing Dark Souls, haha.

Also, I'm not sure why there wasn't a bonus like that for blunt/strike damage, guess that's not something I paid attention to, but it's a good catch. Perhaps they figured it wasn't needed for them since most of those weapons are going to be slow, big hitting weapons and you're not going to have to hit as many times as faster, lower damaging Tech weapons? Balancing reasons like that are the only reasons I can think of for them not having a perk for that damage type. i wouldn't imagine that they just simply forget about adding one.

[Dragon Lord]

So I have to share this here because this dude is absolutely insane. I came cross this video in my recommended feed on YouTube yesterday.



Like bro, I need to delete my platinum trophy after watch that. I am not worthy of it.

[ShiraNoMai]

East Asian player? Checks out. What a legend holy shit.