Super Mario Bros. Wonder

[queenzelda]

I donlt know. Super Mario Bros Wonder seems like a step back to me. If anything, I'd love to have seen this game developed more as a Super Mario Odysse route compared to going backwards to the old skewl game play ways. All they did was add badges to change things up and make weird things happen with the flowers. Woopie.

Imagine the Odysee engine with this same idea in mind, then yea I'd be more interested.

[Moonface]

I'd argue that the changes to gameplay with Wonder's badge system versus Woolly World's is way more substantial. Woolly generally gave you some of the same things that OG Yoshi's Island gave: view hidden cloud items, full element melons, big eggs. With Wonder's system, it adds entirely new platforming mechanics. Wall jumping, crouch jumping, grapple hook. That's like adding a whole new toolset on top of the existing one.

While I agree that the badges focus more on adding new movement options compared to Woolly World, I get the feeling that at their core those options will ultimately be ways to make certain obstacles easier unless levels have areas that can only be reached with a particular badge equipped, which would be a neat way to add a reason to return to a level and stop levels from all being 100% completable on the first run. Ideally badges would be like how stickers function in LittleBigPlanet; you use them in certain levels to access areas you couldn't the first time, rather than just using them to make a level easier to fully complete.
I get maybe Mario games have always generally been this way but the idea of a platformer in 2023 that has zero replayability to its levels by making them fully completable on the first go is something that seems dated and asking a lot to spend $70 on. While Mario is a big name, if any other platformer was asking $70 for levels that can be one-and-done it would probably get crucified for it.

Cool how there's stages to try out a Badge to decide whether or not you'll be using it. Game looks fine, it's just the Elephant power-up I'm not a fan of still but whatever.

Thinking about that particular power-up again as I read your post, it's really just an upgraded version of the big mushroom power-up since it has everything that does (although I feel the big mushroom gave some degree of invincibility whereas the elephant doesn't seem to do so?) plus the added features of the trunk. I won't be shocked if someone proves me utterly wrong on this take though.

I donlt know. Super Mario Bros Wonder seems like a step back to me. If anything, I'd love to have seen this game developed more as a Super Mario Odysse route compared to going backwards to the old skewl game play ways. All they did was add badges to change things up and make weird things happen with the flowers. Woopie.

Imagine the Odysee engine with this same idea in mind, then yea I'd be more interested.

You mean like a 3D Mario-style game with this stuff, or more like 3D World? I think trying to make a four player co-op game in the big open spaces Odyssey and other 3D Mario games go for would be a real nightmare to make work, especially for local co-op. I was thinking of how Sackboy: A Big Adventure manages to do it but the level design of that game is a bit more like the 3D World games rather than 3D Mario style.
As for whether Wonder feels like a step backwards I can't really say since I have borderline no experience with 2D Mario games, but what do you think would be a better approach (if any) to moving 2D Mario style games forward instead of what Wonder is going for?

[queenzelda]

Idk with the first little big planet, going from world to world was awesome. So it could be done looking at it from the lbp perspective. I mean the newer lbp game on the PS4 was fun but it also got kinda boring after you finished the game. Unlike lbp 1 and 2, those were fun games. I hope they're remastered with the worlds since I think the servers for the lbp games are kinda dead now.

Anyway, Super Mario Bros Wonder has interesting mechanics but idk if it's worth $60 for basically the same Mario game Nintendo has been selling us for years, just with different game mechanics. Idk, I'm just quoting TagBackTV at this juncture but he's also right. (Sadly.)

[Moonface]

Anyway, Super Mario Bros Wonder has interesting mechanics but idk if it's worth $60 for basically the same Mario game Nintendo has been selling us for years, just with different game mechanics. Idk, I'm just quoting TagBackTV at this juncture but he's also right. (Sadly.)

Unless @ShiraNoMai gets a copy of the game because she wants it at launch, I'll probably be relying on a Twitch streamer I watch who plays and makes Mario romhacks for an opinion on whether the game does enough to be worth the time and price myself, due to my lack of experience with 2D Mario.

As for LBP servers, they are working again but for how active the community is on them nowadays I have no clue. I suspect it's likely very small just from how old the games are and the long server downtime getting people to move on. Hopefully Restitched can reignite the community LBP games used to have.

[Mr EliteL]

Cool how there's stages to try out a Badge to decide whether or not you'll be using it. Game looks fine, it's just the Elephant power-up I'm not a fan of still but whatever.

Thinking about that particular power-up again as I read your post, it's really just an upgraded version of the big mushroom power-up since it has everything that does (although I feel the big mushroom gave some degree of invincibility whereas the elephant doesn't seem to do so?) plus the added features of the trunk. I won't be shocked if someone proves me utterly wrong on this take though.  

Yeah now that you mention that it's seems a bit better that way, you're not a giant easily ploughing through level just smaller and have an extra ability on top. Just can't help feeling it could've been something different but eh, I'll learn to accept it. I just hope levels won't require you to be using the power-up the entire time. Like ah this item is blocked by all these blocks, too bad you don't have the Elephant power-up! Then again usually there should be an item block with that in anyway within the level so...yeah.

[Moonface]

I just hope levels won't require you to be using the power-up the entire time. Like ah this item is blocked by all these blocks, too bad you don't have the Elephant power-up! Then again usually there should be an item block with that in anyway within the level so...yeah.

Have Mario games ever done that though, where something you need to obtain that isn't optional is locked away if you don't have the correct thing on you? From what little experience I have with Mario it's always come off as a series that tries to give you everything the first time around, and only involves backtracking or revisiting levels if you miss something or the game encourages it such as in Odyssey.

[Mr EliteL]

Sort of, well for example needing a Super Cape to get to a high place or over high blocks that hide an area off-screen like Warp Pipes to skip to another world/level. The latter is optional as you can complete levels to reach where the Warp Pipes go, although I think the high places may have a secret or something of the like though if wanting to 100% the game. I suppose secrets can be considered optional too if you're not bothered about finding any. I might be forgetting something though, like the Star area in SMW and if that was mandatory or not.

[Moonface]

As a Mario noob I dunno what game you're referring to with the Super Cape except that it's probably one of the SNES games. I was curious if Secret Exits have continued to be a thing for 2D Mario though and NSMBU had them, and it seems some of them require a power-up to reach so missable secrets look to have a good shot at being in this game too. NSMBU's Secret Exits went to secret levels too, that you would beat to then unlock the path skip to whatever World. I wonder how this game will handle that though because of the overworld having collectible requirements to proceed, since skipping to later worlds would mean you lack enough collectibles to keep progressing. Older games likely got away with it since progression was tied purely to beating levels, which Wonder is doing away with.

[Mr EliteL]

The game I was talking about was Super Mario World, SNES and the one that I played was the GBA port of SMW. Although now we have SMW and SMBW for abbreviations so we all gotta try and not mistake them.

[Moonface]

Some new gameplay footage came out today, and it shows off the following content, including a few new things not seen yet:

• 0:00 - 0:59 | Daisy Gameplay w/ Elephant Transformation
  
• 0:59 - 2:40 | Toad Gameplay w/ Elephant Transformation and Wonder Effect (Invincibility Timer)
  
• 2:40 - 3:00 | Badge Menu w/ New Badges (Floating High Jump, Auto Super Mushroom, Coin Reward)
  
• 3:00 - 3:52 | Luigi Gameplay w/ New Enemies
  
• 3:52 - 4:42 | Peach Gameplay w/ Wall Jumping
  
• 4:42 - 5:05 | Trottin' Piranha Plants Minigame
  
• 5:05 - 6:48 | Mario Gameplay w/ Drill Powerup
  
• 6:48 - 7:39 | 4P Yoshi Gameplay w/ Wonder Effect (Invincibility Timer)
  
• 7:39 - 8:28 | 4P Yoshi Gameplay w/ Wonder Effect (Rhino Stampede)
  

[queenzelda]

The music is nice, it's nice to finally see Daisy in a Mario game that isn't a party game. But, I'm kinda still not sold on it.

[Moonface]

The music is nice, it's nice to finally see Daisy in a Mario game that isn't a party game. But, I'm kinda still not sold on it.

I'm not sure whether I'm sold on it myself yet, but I do know I'm not really sold on the tone the game has to it. It probably isn't helped that a lot of footage is naturally of the first world where a lot of those stupid talking flowers are, but compared to something like Odyssey's levels it steers a little too far into "sunshine and rainbows" for a kingdom that Bowser is wreaking havoc in.

---

Not sure how real this is, but a leak is going around regarding playable characters:

SMBWonder Playable Characters

Apparently Rosalina will also be a playable character, assuming this isn't an elaborate fake: https://www.reddit.com/user/Daisy_Fan64/...cter_leak/